Site Name

Please join us in welcoming…

• Lore and Satorri from TankSpot.com
• Veneretio from TankingTips.com

Together we tackle some of the recently announced Cataclysm Class Preview changes, discuss the effects of recent changes, and speculate more about the changes not yet announced. We also cover a few listener e-mails regarding raid mechanics, add-ons, and more!

Talking Tank: RELOADED is available for download via our via iTunes, RSS feed or click here!

The next installment of Talking Tank will be announced here shortly, so stay tuned to Rawrcast for the opinions and insight from the bloggers and personalities that you want to hear from!

This special episode of Rawrcast was brought to you by The Raid. Check out www.jointheraid.com for more information!

FFA Questions

answers from Satorri of TankSpot.com

Leviathon916:
Do you guys think that expertise is a must or not?

In a word, no. It is not a *must*. You can get by without paying the least attention to Expertise. However, there are 2 reasons to value expertise that might make it desirable:
1.) Until ICC, Expertise can reduce your chance to cause the boss to swing faster sometimes, which will in turn reduce the number of swings you take (some reports suggest that most bosses are incapable of parry hasting in ICC). This value can actually be rather significant, and some math has suggested that based solely on that Expertise is granting roughly 40-80% of the avoidance value that pure dodge rating would be. That varies by fight, of course. That is before considering the hit values of expertise, speaking strictly on survival.

2.) Until you reach the soft cap, Expertise is reducing your chance not to hit with physical attacks by double what hit rating is, point for point (32.79 hit rating = 1% reduced miss chance, 32.79 = 1% reduced dodge chance *and* 1% reduced parry chance until the soft cap at 26 Expertise on the sheet where you will no longer be dodged). Above the soft cap, you are still reducing the chance to be parried. This is not required for threat, and it may not be your biggest value, *and* the value will vary with each class and spec (though Bears, Warriors, and Blood DKs will have a vast majority of their moves subject to dodge/parry chance). However, what this does give you is reliability. It is not always a concern that you be doing the absolutely most threat you could be (and generally if you are weak on threat hit/exp are not the right answer). What is of interest is that when you attack something to put threat on it, you know you will hit.

So, the #1 value for Expertise I take away is that confidence that when I go to smash something, it will be smashed. Predictable threat is often more valuable than pure scale of threat.

hankfrid said:
What numbers you guys think a prot warrior should shoot for, to tank ICC10 and 25. Specifically in regards to Health, Hit, Expertise, Dodge parry and block. And with the ICC debuff on dodge, does this give dodge the higest priority amongst the avoidance stats?

Very meaty question. Generally, I think it is an easier standard to look at your overall gear level, if we are just talking stats (I would also be particularly concerned that you had some raid tanking experience, not just heroics, but that is not what you asked).
If you use the GS addon, that’s nice, and it can actually give you average ilvl feedback, which I consider to be a bit less vague. If you want to be starting in ICC10 it is pretty reasonable to hit at least a ToC10 avg ilvl gear set (232 avg ilvl), which can be readily hit with Triumph gear and ICC5 reg/heroic farming. Ideally for ICC25 you want to be closer to 245 (as if you were geared fully out of ToC25).

For specific stat levels, I can say that I have successfully tanked most of ICC10 with a Warrior (who was below the avg ilvl I mentioned above), who only had about 40k health raid buffed, before the new ICC buff, about 53% avoidance (28% dodge, 18% parry, before Chill), ~20% block chance, 20 exp, and 150 hit rating. That is pretty low, and I wouldn’t go too much lower, but always appreciate the trade-off on survival. You may have higher health and lower avoidance, or vice versa.

Just bear in mind the lighter your gear the more the team has to compensate, usually meaning the healers will have to work harder to keep you up. If you are going in with all-star healers who know what’s going on, you can do alright. If you are going in with new, weak, or under-experienced healers, and you are bringing a light tank, you’re asking for struggle.

Darksend asked:
What do you guys think about trinkets and how drastic a change they went trough between BC and Wrath and what they can be again in cataclysm? Specifically the “on-use” portion of trinkets just being completely ignored. Also specifically in relation to the DR in how an avoidance trinket that is supposed to give 10% dodge gives only 2-3%, verses satrina’s trinket from TOC which gives HP or this new one from frost badges which gives a shield. Should trinket on-use effects be redesigned to be fun again in Cataclysm and how would you go about doing that?

I will admit, I am a fan of the classic concept of trinkets. Rather than just being a piece of armor they originally were supposed to be a more functional change. You would have an extra tool to use, or a special ability that could proc. I get the sense that as time has gone on they have traded more of the itemization for the gear slot into passive value that you always get, and the on-use has become a nice flavor, but less crucial.

In truth I like the passive trinkets as well, things like the Commendation of Kael’thas or the Corpse Tongue Coin are interesting effects that kick in when you hit the danger zone.

So, to answer your last question, if I were to redesign the system and trinkets for Clysm, I would shift the value out of passive stats, and leave trinkets more as an equipped general buff, resembling a talent in effect. So, active trinkets with a on-use effect that is meaningful in scale, like a tanking cooldown or slightly smaller. Passive effects could trigger like the trinkets I mentioned above.

I won’t be terribly disappointed if things don’t change wildly though, it doesn’t feel like a problem.